Comments for English Class Rocks! http://rwilson.edublogs.org "We read to know we are not alone." - C.S. Lewis Tue, 05 May 2009 12:14:20 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Dale http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-539 Dale Tue, 05 May 2009 12:14:20 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-539 I believe that Machiavelli would have punished this person to the fullest extent possible. Plagiarism was may have been a problem back then, but it was not easy to prove. No that is in these days, if Machiavelli were to find out that someone did plagiarize, they would be in big trouble. Machiavelli believes in major punishment with no excuses. The person who plagiarized would be hurt at the least, if not dead. I personally would not be as strict. It is hard to say exactly what I would do in this case, but I would not fail them. What usually happens when someone plagiarizes is that the teacher gives them a zero on the thing that they plagiarized on. I think this is a good idea because in most cases, the grade will be so significant that they will learn their lesson. In this case, the blogs are not as significant or not significant enough to make their grade go down enough for them to worry, and then they will not learn their lesson. I think they should be punished so that they learn their lesson and hesitate before they think about plagiarizing. I believe that Machiavelli would have punished this person to the fullest extent possible. Plagiarism was may have been a problem back then, but it was not easy to prove. No that is in these days, if Machiavelli were to find out that someone did plagiarize, they would be in big trouble. Machiavelli believes in major punishment with no excuses. The person who plagiarized would be hurt at the least, if not dead.
I personally would not be as strict. It is hard to say exactly what I would do in this case, but I would not fail them. What usually happens when someone plagiarizes is that the teacher gives them a zero on the thing that they plagiarized on. I think this is a good idea because in most cases, the grade will be so significant that they will learn their lesson. In this case, the blogs are not as significant or not significant enough to make their grade go down enough for them to worry, and then they will not learn their lesson. I think they should be punished so that they learn their lesson and hesitate before they think about plagiarizing.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Collin http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-538 Collin Fri, 01 May 2009 21:13:45 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-538 (Third time I've submitted this, not sure if it'll work or why it isn't working) I agree with Heather and Dan for the most part but disagree strongly with Ellen. The fact is that this is a very simple assignment that does not require a lot of work in the first place. Had it been a substantial essay of sorts, then I think an appropriately more severe response would be in order. But, overall, this is a very nonchalant assignment that, as I said, doesn't require much work. Therefore, I do not believe you should punish the student to any severe extent, but one must keep in mind that morality was broken here. I think the best idea is to refer this student to their housemaster and guidance councilor; they will have a good idea about what to do. A call home to the parent of the student should also be in one's mind, as the parent has a right to know that their child is engaging in immoral acts. Overall, I definitely think you should be rather lenient, only because this assignment is so lax. It really isn't a substantial assignment and I doubt anyone would knowingly plagiarize for anything of higher caliber. Machiavelli would be quite displeased with the student and ultimately have less "patience". I believe he would most probably approach the situation with more severity and punish the individual more severely. But, as we all know, Machiavelli is a brash realist who acts and speaks bluntly. (Third time I’ve submitted this, not sure if it’ll work or why it isn’t working)

I agree with Heather and Dan for the most part but disagree strongly with Ellen. The fact is that this is a very simple assignment that does not require a lot of work in the first place. Had it been a substantial essay of sorts, then I think an appropriately more severe response would be in order. But, overall, this is a very nonchalant assignment that, as I said, doesn’t require much work. Therefore, I do not believe you should punish the student to any severe extent, but one must keep in mind that morality was broken here. I think the best idea is to refer this student to their housemaster and guidance councilor; they will have a good idea about what to do. A call home to the parent of the student should also be in one’s mind, as the parent has a right to know that their child is engaging in immoral acts. Overall, I definitely think you should be rather lenient, only because this assignment is so lax. It really isn’t a substantial assignment and I doubt anyone would knowingly plagiarize for anything of higher caliber.

Machiavelli would be quite displeased with the student and ultimately have less “patience”. I believe he would most probably approach the situation with more severity and punish the individual more severely. But, as we all know, Machiavelli is a brash realist who acts and speaks bluntly.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Austin http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-537 Austin Fri, 01 May 2009 03:30:20 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-537 It is ashamed that this happened, but as Tom said, it does happen. I also like what Max said, you are not asking our opinions on plagiarizing, you are asking for advice on what you should do, so there is no need for me to write a paragraph about “how terrible plagiarism is and how appalled I am to be in the same class with this criminal.” We all know it’s wrong, no need to say it 50 different ways. As for Machiavelli, we know what he would do. In his book he talks about how a ruler should be feared rather than loved. Now it is up to you Ms. Wilson, would you rather be loved or feared. If you would like to follow the Machiavellian way you could do the same as Cesare Borgia (according to Machiavelli) and cut the person in half and leave them in the center of the square (or student center I guess). This would definitely make an example of them for the rest of us when we walk into school the next morning. I know if I saw my classmate cut up on the floor I would put every homework assignment I have through turnitin.com. This is not the only way to be feared, however… you could also garrote them… or remove their limbs in front of the class. There are many things you could do that I’m sure would make Machiavelli proud of you. Now if you are the polar opposite of Machiavelli you could take the path of being loved and send them off with a warning and a piece of cake. Or, you could take the middle road and do what is says in the handbook and give them zeros, but also allow them the chance to make it up. I think this is the worst assignment to plagiarize, but people do things that they shouldn’t all the time and cutting them in half doesn’t give them the opportunity to learn. I think if they give a good response to this using information from Machiavelli’s text you maybe should go easier on them. Clearly they learned from their mistake and did the work… or you could kill them. It’s your choice. It is ashamed that this happened, but as Tom said, it does happen. I also like what Max said, you are not asking our opinions on plagiarizing, you are asking for advice on what you should do, so there is no need for me to write a paragraph about “how terrible plagiarism is and how appalled I am to be in the same class with this criminal.” We all know it’s wrong, no need to say it 50 different ways.
As for Machiavelli, we know what he would do. In his book he talks about how a ruler should be feared rather than loved. Now it is up to you Ms. Wilson, would you rather be loved or feared. If you would like to follow the Machiavellian way you could do the same as Cesare Borgia (according to Machiavelli) and cut the person in half and leave them in the center of the square (or student center I guess). This would definitely make an example of them for the rest of us when we walk into school the next morning. I know if I saw my classmate cut up on the floor I would put every homework assignment I have through turnitin.com. This is not the only way to be feared, however… you could also garrote them… or remove their limbs in front of the class. There are many things you could do that I’m sure would make Machiavelli proud of you.
Now if you are the polar opposite of Machiavelli you could take the path of being loved and send them off with a warning and a piece of cake.
Or, you could take the middle road and do what is says in the handbook and give them zeros, but also allow them the chance to make it up. I think this is the worst assignment to plagiarize, but people do things that they shouldn’t all the time and cutting them in half doesn’t give them the opportunity to learn. I think if they give a good response to this using information from Machiavelli’s text you maybe should go easier on them. Clearly they learned from their mistake and did the work… or you could kill them. It’s your choice.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Connor http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-536 Connor Fri, 01 May 2009 02:16:20 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-536 What should you do to punish this kid who plagarized...hmmmmmmmm...If I were you i would do either of the following. -If it is a senior, senior internship is in like a week so its not worth making it a big deal because it will just give you unneeded stress. -If it is a junior then i would tell the kids housemaster and ask to not be further involved. You have to make sure you make up some excuse as to why you don't want to be involved any further though..that is key, because then you don't have to deal with it. Machiavelli, on the other hand, would be more pro-active and would tell you to take the law into your own hands. He'd probably go straight for torture, but since your not cool with that he'd tell you to completely humiliate the kid and just give him an F What should you do to punish this kid who plagarized…hmmmmmmmm…If I were you i would do either of the following.
-If it is a senior, senior internship is in like a week so its not worth making it a big deal because it will just give you unneeded stress.
-If it is a junior then i would tell the kids housemaster and ask to not be further involved. You have to make sure you make up some excuse as to why you don’t want to be involved any further though..that is key, because then you don’t have to deal with it.

Machiavelli, on the other hand, would be more pro-active and would tell you to take the law into your own hands. He’d probably go straight for torture, but since your not cool with that he’d tell you to completely humiliate the kid and just give him an F

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Alex http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-535 Alex Fri, 01 May 2009 02:14:28 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-535 I really like Ellen's ideas... I'm not really sure what Machiavelli would do. He would probably use the student as an example and publicly humiliate him/her to show everyone else what happens when they mess with his authority. What ever you do, it should be oppressive and over the top! I really like Ellen’s ideas… I’m not really sure what Machiavelli would do. He would probably use the student as an example and publicly humiliate him/her to show everyone else what happens when they mess with his authority. What ever you do, it should be oppressive and over the top!

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Christian http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-534 Christian Fri, 01 May 2009 02:12:52 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-534 In my opinion, as Michael said you should let the student explain to you their side of the story. Once you have talked to the student, and heard his/her side you would have to give him/her some sort of punishment with consequences. In this case, this Blog assignment that we have once a week isn’t the most significant assignment we work on. Although all 3 questions is a lot of work to plagiarize. If the student is someone who you view as a hard worker and not someone who would be likely to do this I think you should just give him zeros for all his/her Blog posts and just keep it between you two. I believe this simply because it’s not a significant grade that would coincide with something like an essay. If you don’t see any other plagiarizing in his other work I don’t see any reason to ruin a kids future with unknown consequences by taking it to the administration. But if you do discover that this isn’t the first time he/she has done this, and you see it in their other works, I think as a teacher you have a responsibility to bring this kid’s problem to his/her Housemaster. Like everyone has already stated Machiavelli would not take this situation lightly. He would most likely torture the cheater and possibly have him/her killed to set an example to the rest of the “citizens”. At the same time it would be hypocritical of him because he believes in doing whatever it takes to get to the top because in reality our world is corrupt and people do what they have to, to come out on top. In my opinion, as Michael said you should let the student explain to you their side of the story. Once you have talked to the student, and heard his/her side you would have to give him/her some sort of punishment with consequences. In this case, this Blog assignment that we have once a week isn’t the most significant assignment we work on. Although all 3 questions is a lot of work to plagiarize. If the student is someone who you view as a hard worker and not someone who would be likely to do this I think you should just give him zeros for all his/her Blog posts and just keep it between you two. I believe this simply because it’s not a significant grade that would coincide with something like an essay. If you don’t see any other plagiarizing in his other work I don’t see any reason to ruin a kids future with unknown consequences by taking it to the administration. But if you do discover that this isn’t the first time he/she has done this, and you see it in their other works, I think as a teacher you have a responsibility to bring this kid’s problem to his/her Housemaster.

Like everyone has already stated Machiavelli would not take this situation lightly. He would most likely torture the cheater and possibly have him/her killed to set an example to the rest of the “citizens”. At the same time it would be hypocritical of him because he believes in doing whatever it takes to get to the top because in reality our world is corrupt and people do what they have to, to come out on top.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Dan W. http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-531 Dan W. Fri, 01 May 2009 01:45:40 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-531 While I feel that plagiarizing is a horrible thing to do and that the person should be punished, I do not agree with the very cruel punishments of failing the quarter, or having to take two English classes over again. I do however agree with what Tom said about handing over the case to the student's house master and letting he/she deal with it. Another reason why I don't think that such extreme punishment should be given is because the student has not had a chance to give his or her own explanation yet. Also Tom's point about the copyright laws does make sense that is why I also think that Morgan's idea of including the parents and the housemaster makes sense you (Ms. Wilson) could also be involved it you or the Housemaster, or even the parents want. I believe that Machiavelli would tell you to do whatever course of action you felt was best because you are the leader, and like Sarah S. said Machiavelli would back you up one hundred percent, and even though it might be a good idea to include the "people" in your decision it is ultimately up to you and what you think is the best/ most appropriate course of action to take. While I feel that plagiarizing is a horrible thing to do and that the person should be punished, I do not agree with the very cruel punishments of failing the quarter, or having to take two English classes over again. I do however agree with what Tom said about handing over the case to the student’s house master and letting he/she deal with it. Another reason why I don’t think that such extreme punishment should be given is because the student has not had a chance to give his or her own explanation yet. Also Tom’s point about the copyright laws does make sense that is why I also think that Morgan’s idea of including the parents and the housemaster makes sense you (Ms. Wilson) could also be involved it you or the Housemaster, or even the parents want. I believe that Machiavelli would tell you to do whatever course of action you felt was best because you are the leader, and like Sarah S. said Machiavelli would back you up one hundred percent, and even though it might be a good idea to include the “people” in your decision it is ultimately up to you and what you think is the best/ most appropriate course of action to take.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Erica http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-530 Erica Fri, 01 May 2009 01:37:01 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-530 Similar to what many have said, plagiarism is absolutely unacceptable. It only causes the plagiarizer to be seen as an uninterested slacker. Personally, I would say that the person should be dealt with to the full extent of the Cardinal Rules, meaning an F on the assignment, an appointment with the Housemaster and a call home. However, holding them back if they are a senior would definitely be too harsh. That has a lot more consequences to it than simply getting an F on one assignment, consequences that are too much for a crime such as this. I believe Machiavelli would make an example out of this person. He would punish them to the full extent of the law to show people what would happen if they ever dared to do the same thing. However, while he would punish them fully, he would not go overboard with it. The punishment would match the crime; unlike Ellen and others, I do not believe that he would torture or kill the plagiarizer, simply punish him as much as the law allowed. Similar to what many have said, plagiarism is absolutely unacceptable. It only causes the plagiarizer to be seen as an uninterested slacker. Personally, I would say that the person should be dealt with to the full extent of the Cardinal Rules, meaning an F on the assignment, an appointment with the Housemaster and a call home. However, holding them back if they are a senior would definitely be too harsh. That has a lot more consequences to it than simply getting an F on one assignment, consequences that are too much for a crime such as this.
I believe Machiavelli would make an example out of this person. He would punish them to the full extent of the law to show people what would happen if they ever dared to do the same thing. However, while he would punish them fully, he would not go overboard with it. The punishment would match the crime; unlike Ellen and others, I do not believe that he would torture or kill the plagiarizer, simply punish him as much as the law allowed.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Louie http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-529 Louie Fri, 01 May 2009 01:23:30 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-529 I agree with Kristyn in thinking that the rules should be carried out; however I do think that there are always details to a situation like this that cannot be overlooked. I agree with Yuki in thinking that you should take some of the student's perspective on why they did it. I certainly do not think plagiarizing is justified by any reason at all but there are certain things that should be considered. Maybe (like Yuki said) the student did not understand The Prince and did not want to embarrass themselves by saying something. Also, I think that if the student only used Spark Notes as a springboard, meaning that they got some core ideas and then elaborated with ideas of their own, then it is slightly more understandable in my eyes. So, if the person did this, then I think that they should get the LEAST amount of credit possible and be punished within class for it. However, if these are blatant copy-and-paste style responses then the student should be punished by the rules stated in the handbook regarding plagiarism. And if the student is a junior and moving on to AP English, the recommendation should be taken back. If they are a senior, honestly just give them a zero on the assignment, they have gone to this school for four years and are on their way to college, you should be the slightest bit lenient if that is that case. Plagiarism really is a stupid and deplorable thing to do. It just makes the person look lazy and unmotivated. And, like many before have said, they don't reap the educational benefits of the book. Machiavelli would probably punish this person REALLY harshly. He would probably make it well known in the area and make sure the people knew that the student had plagiarized. He would also make an example out of them, to show the other people that this is what would happen if they were to plagiarize. In relation to the government, he would believe that you must make an example of the person to keep the rest of the masses in order. He would especially be livid (as I'm sure you are) because he is a man of literature and he sees the under appreciation of his work. However, I think it would be best to do what I said before. Find out what the situation was and then go from there. Word-for-word plagiarism isn’t ok, but using Spark Notes as a springboard or for base ideas could possibly squeak by as acceptable. The person should definitely be punished no matter what, but to what degree, now that depends. There's always another side to the story, and the people who think the student should be punished harshly should know that because I’m sure 98% of them have used or will use Spark Notes at some point in their lives. It is a shame though, because I actually found The Prince to be somewhat of an enjoyable read. I agree with Kristyn in thinking that the rules should be carried out; however I do think that there are always details to a situation like this that cannot be overlooked. I agree with Yuki in thinking that you should take some of the student’s perspective on why they did it. I certainly do not think plagiarizing is justified by any reason at all but there are certain things that should be considered. Maybe (like Yuki said) the student did not understand The Prince and did not want to embarrass themselves by saying something. Also, I think that if the student only used Spark Notes as a springboard, meaning that they got some core ideas and then elaborated with ideas of their own, then it is slightly more understandable in my eyes. So, if the person did this, then I think that they should get the LEAST amount of credit possible and be punished within class for it. However, if these are blatant copy-and-paste style responses then the student should be punished by the rules stated in the handbook regarding plagiarism. And if the student is a junior and moving on to AP English, the recommendation should be taken back. If they are a senior, honestly just give them a zero on the assignment, they have gone to this school for four years and are on their way to college, you should be the slightest bit lenient if that is that case. Plagiarism really is a stupid and deplorable thing to do. It just makes the person look lazy and unmotivated. And, like many before have said, they don’t reap the educational benefits of the book. Machiavelli would probably punish this person REALLY harshly. He would probably make it well known in the area and make sure the people knew that the student had plagiarized. He would also make an example out of them, to show the other people that this is what would happen if they were to plagiarize. In relation to the government, he would believe that you must make an example of the person to keep the rest of the masses in order. He would especially be livid (as I’m sure you are) because he is a man of literature and he sees the under appreciation of his work. However, I think it would be best to do what I said before. Find out what the situation was and then go from there. Word-for-word plagiarism isn’t ok, but using Spark Notes as a springboard or for base ideas could possibly squeak by as acceptable. The person should definitely be punished no matter what, but to what degree, now that depends. There’s always another side to the story, and the people who think the student should be punished harshly should know that because I’m sure 98% of them have used or will use Spark Notes at some point in their lives. It is a shame though, because I actually found The Prince to be somewhat of an enjoyable read.

]]> Comment on Renaissance Lit Discussion Question #4 by Jill http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2009/04/25/renaissance-lit-discussion-question-4/comment-page-1/#comment-528 Jill Fri, 01 May 2009 01:23:11 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/?p=31#comment-528 I disagree with Ellen when she says that the senior should not be allowed to graduate or that the junior would need to take two english classes. I think that is very extreme and that going to that extreme would be unecesseary. I think that it was bad that the person copied directly from Sparknotes and that they should have been a little smarter about maybe changing up the words or just taking ideas from Sparknotes. I think that maybe you should conference with this person and have them not recieve any credit for any of the responses, but ironically I actually think that Machiavelli would not be mad about this student because The Prince is all about what to do to stay on top. Apparently this person who plagarized was just trying to keep up with their work but unfortunately did not do it in the most intellectual way. I disagree with Ellen when she says that the senior should not be allowed to graduate or that the junior would need to take two english classes. I think that is very extreme and that going to that extreme would be unecesseary. I think that it was bad that the person copied directly from Sparknotes and that they should have been a little smarter about maybe changing up the words or just taking ideas from Sparknotes. I think that maybe you should conference with this person and have them not recieve any credit for any of the responses, but ironically I actually think that Machiavelli would not be mad about this student because The Prince is all about what to do to stay on top. Apparently this person who plagarized was just trying to keep up with their work but unfortunately did not do it in the most intellectual way.

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