Comments for English Class Rocks! http://rwilson.edublogs.org "We read to know we are not alone." - C.S. Lewis Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:18:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by Zach http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-414 Zach Fri, 23 May 2008 04:40:16 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-414 nevermind, it didn't work :( nevermind, it didn’t work :(

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by Zach http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-413 Zach Fri, 23 May 2008 04:39:36 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-413 Ms. Wilson, You don't have to put this on the blog, but I just realized something cool: :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) Ms. Wilson,
You don’t have to put this on the blog, but I just realized something cool:

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by Zach http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-412 Zach Fri, 23 May 2008 04:38:13 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-412 Am I answering this late? Technically it's 12:30, Friday morning, but it kind of seems like Thursday night. Well, anyways, The parts of the Utopian system that I would like to become introduced to our system is the theory that everyone should get something back from the community. I feel it is important that everyone has the right to live, to eat, and to have shelter, and if they cannot afford it, then the community should be obligated to supply it to them. However, I strongly disagree with the Utopian thought of DEPENDING on people to work for the benefit of the community. Humans are not that selfless; they work for themselves and for those that they are closely related to or that they know dearly. People will not dilligently work for people a few thousand miles away (as in the USSR) without any incentive. A good incentive, like more money, is the capitalist way of getting people to work harder. Of course on the other hand, the government can threaten people's lives to get them to work (Stalinism, if that's a word). I believe that the people are the most important part of any society and that there should be loads of social programs to help out the people. However, the people must be provided with incentives. -Zach P.S. I"m going to finish my Scientist Collage now :) Am I answering this late? Technically it’s 12:30, Friday morning, but it kind of seems like Thursday night. Well, anyways, The parts of the Utopian system that I would like to become introduced to our system is the theory that everyone should get something back from the community. I feel it is important that everyone has the right to live, to eat, and to have shelter, and if they cannot afford it, then the community should be obligated to supply it to them. However, I strongly disagree with the Utopian thought of DEPENDING on people to work for the benefit of the community. Humans are not that selfless; they work for themselves and for those that they are closely related to or that they know dearly. People will not dilligently work for people a few thousand miles away (as in the USSR) without any incentive. A good incentive, like more money, is the capitalist way of getting people to work harder. Of course on the other hand, the government can threaten people’s lives to get them to work (Stalinism, if that’s a word). I believe that the people are the most important part of any society and that there should be loads of social programs to help out the people. However, the people must be provided with incentives.

-Zach

P.S. I”m going to finish my Scientist Collage now :)

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by David http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-411 David Thu, 22 May 2008 17:10:52 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-411 The Utopians political system is basically based around the Catholic Church and the Ten Commandments. The Utopians also have a prince and a senate who deal with the feign relations and punishment. The senate and the prince don’t really have anything to do from what I tell; they would deal with natural disasters (if they exist in that world). Also the society is almost entirely patriarchal with only virtuous old widows (who are long for this world) who can become priests (but that isn’t likely). They have helped emancipate some of their neighboring countries from tyrants, they place Utopians in charge but that is by popular demand of the neighboring countries. The Utopians claim not to like war and claim go into war cautiously (still are prepared to defend themselves), but they help friends defend and if a good enough case is made they will even help get revenge for their friends. Silver and gold is despised by Utopians; they use these materials for chamber pots and adorn prisoners with these. They treasure the materials required for everyday life like iron. Utopians accept the cripples and punish those who make fun of them. Utopians’ laws are few (in respect to other countries) and clear. Those who attempt to commit a crime get the same punishment as those who do commit said crime, etc. Out of what I have mentioned the only realist ideas that I would like to see in society would be the clear, to the point, laws, accepting cripples, and being very cautious of going to war. Sadly none of are going to happen anytime soon (if ever). If laws don’t have alsorts of nonsense people will use loop holes and cause tons of trouble. As long as we have pride people will make fun of those they think they are better than; someone who is deformed or crippled is considered ugly by society and is therefore made fun of (incidentally there was a law about punishing people who don’t take care of their natural beauty, I think). Finally with the whole cautiously going to war, that won’t happen as long as society is patriarchal; men like fighting too much. The Utopians political system is basically based around the Catholic Church and the Ten Commandments. The Utopians also have a prince and a senate who deal with the feign relations and punishment. The senate and the prince don’t really have anything to do from what I tell; they would deal with natural disasters (if they exist in that world). Also the society is almost entirely patriarchal with only virtuous old widows (who are long for this world) who can become priests (but that isn’t likely). They have helped emancipate some of their neighboring countries from tyrants, they place Utopians in charge but that is by popular demand of the neighboring countries. The Utopians claim not to like war and claim go into war cautiously (still are prepared to defend themselves), but they help friends defend and if a good enough case is made they will even help get revenge for their friends. Silver and gold is despised by Utopians; they use these materials for chamber pots and adorn prisoners with these. They treasure the materials required for everyday life like iron. Utopians accept the cripples and punish those who make fun of them. Utopians’ laws are few (in respect to other countries) and clear. Those who attempt to commit a crime get the same punishment as those who do commit said crime, etc.

Out of what I have mentioned the only realist ideas that I would like to see in society would be the clear, to the point, laws, accepting cripples, and being very cautious of going to war.

Sadly none of are going to happen anytime soon (if ever). If laws don’t have alsorts of nonsense people will use loop holes and cause tons of trouble. As long as we have pride people will make fun of those they think they are better than; someone who is deformed or crippled is considered ugly by society and is therefore made fun of (incidentally there was a law about punishing people who don’t take care of their natural beauty, I think). Finally with the whole cautiously going to war, that won’t happen as long as society is patriarchal; men like fighting too much.

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by Noah http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-410 Noah Thu, 22 May 2008 10:11:23 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-410 One aspect of the utopian government that I would like to see in our own is universal healtcare, "the sick, as I have said, they tend carefully, omitting no medicine or food that will restore them to health," (57). The reason that I have for encouraging the United States to adopt such a system is that private health insurance currently leaves over 30 million Americans without medical coverage of any kind. In Utopia, however, no standards are listed for determining whether a person deserves treatment or not. Other than this, however, I do not realistically think that the United States can adopt any of the utopia's governmental policies. My reasoning is that while their government is based on a fictional society in which basic human nature does not interfere with the workings of the government, American society is composed of actual people. It is natural for man to strive to acheive great things through hard work, which he would be unable to do in a society where everyone farms and does not make money. A realistic society can only function if one gets out what he or she puts in. One aspect of the utopian government that I would like to see in our own is universal healtcare, “the sick, as I have said, they tend carefully, omitting no medicine or food that will restore them to health,” (57). The reason that I have for encouraging the United States to adopt such a system is that private health insurance currently leaves over 30 million Americans without medical coverage of any kind. In Utopia, however, no standards are listed for determining whether a person deserves treatment or not. Other than this, however, I do not realistically think that the United States can adopt any of the utopia’s governmental policies. My reasoning is that while their government is based on a fictional society in which basic human nature does not interfere with the workings of the government, American society is composed of actual people. It is natural for man to strive to acheive great things through hard work, which he would be unable to do in a society where everyone farms and does not make money. A realistic society can only function if one gets out what he or she puts in.

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by Liana http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-409 Liana Thu, 22 May 2008 01:57:33 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-409 One of my favorite lines in Utopia, "The Utopians wonder that there is any man who delights in the faint gleam of a little gem when he can look at some star or even the sun itself."While this idea of "wealth" may not be directly related to the political system, I still believe that it is a lesson that could be well-taken in our own social system. Unhappiness arises from mankind's want of what he can't have. To be denied is to be disatisfied. But "worth" is often times a relative concept and most objects are assigned a value according to arbitrary standards set by society. For example, More writes, "They (Utopians) marvel that there is any man so foolish as to think himself the nobler because of the fine texture of his woolen clothing. No matter how fine the thread, a sheep once wore it, and the sheep was a sheep still for all its wearing it." People should take pleasure in what is available to them (the stars) and not get hung up on what is desirable but unobtainable (the gems). The gems represent satisfaction that must be bought, also implying that greater happiness requires greater and greater sums of money. Almost everyone has resorted to the saying, "Money doesn't buy happiness" and while I agree with this statement I don't think anyone will ever take it as seriously as the Utopians and abolish the use of currency. I agree with the Utopians that people should invest more of their happiness in simple pleasures, but I also feel that money is a necessary incentive and reward for work ethic and our system can not exist without it. One of my favorite lines in Utopia, “The Utopians wonder that there is any man who delights in the faint gleam of a little gem when he can look at some star or even the sun itself.”While this idea of “wealth” may not be directly related to the political system, I still believe that it is a lesson that could be well-taken in our own social system. Unhappiness arises from mankind’s want of what he can’t have. To be denied is to be disatisfied. But “worth” is often times a relative concept and most objects are assigned a value according to arbitrary standards set by society. For example, More writes, “They (Utopians) marvel that there is any man so foolish as to think himself the nobler because of the fine texture of his woolen clothing. No matter how fine the thread, a sheep once wore it, and the sheep was a sheep still for all its wearing it.” People should take pleasure in what is available to them (the stars) and not get hung up on what is desirable but unobtainable (the gems). The gems represent satisfaction that must be bought, also implying that greater happiness requires greater and greater sums of money. Almost everyone has resorted to the saying, “Money doesn’t buy happiness” and while I agree with this statement I don’t think anyone will ever take it as seriously as the Utopians and abolish the use of currency. I agree with the Utopians that people should invest more of their happiness in simple pleasures, but I also feel that money is a necessary incentive and reward for work ethic and our system can not exist without it.

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #4 by Mary H http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-408 Mary H Wed, 21 May 2008 00:35:33 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/16/utopia-discussion-question-4/#comment-408 I think a designated rest time in the middle of the work day would be excellent to have introduced into our system. This is because having a long break in the middle of the day would be nice. I also think that giving the senate time to think about ideas being introduced before discussing them is a good idea. When issues are thoroughly thought through before being discusses, they can be discussed more intelligently and productively. Choosing princes for life would not work in our system. This would lead to someone becoming a dictator eventually. Even though in the book it says that if a prince is suspected of wanting this kind of power he is kicked out, no specific plan is given for getting rid of the prince if this is the case. Also, no one ever intends for elected leaders to take over governments, and it has happened many times in history anyway. I also think that relocating people to regulate city sizes would not work. If someone did not want to leave their hometown, as would be the case with many, this would create a lot of resentment towards the Utopian government. I think a designated rest time in the middle of the work day would be excellent to have introduced into our system. This is because having a long break in the middle of the day would be nice. I also think that giving the senate time to think about ideas being introduced before discussing them is a good idea. When issues are thoroughly thought through before being discusses, they can be discussed more intelligently and productively. Choosing princes for life would not work in our system. This would lead to someone becoming a dictator eventually. Even though in the book it says that if a prince is suspected of wanting this kind of power he is kicked out, no specific plan is given for getting rid of the prince if this is the case. Also, no one ever intends for elected leaders to take over governments, and it has happened many times in history anyway. I also think that relocating people to regulate city sizes would not work. If someone did not want to leave their hometown, as would be the case with many, this would create a lot of resentment towards the Utopian government.

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #3 by Elliot http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/08/utopia-discussion-question-3/#comment-407 Elliot Fri, 16 May 2008 02:52:07 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/08/utopia-discussion-question-3/#comment-407 As was pretty much covered to death by every person before me is that the central purpose of the Utopians’ lives is achieving harmony, happiness etc… Their method of achieving this certainly does resemble typical Marxist ideals. I’ll have to disagree with Noah a bit here. While actual applications of Communism have resulted in oppressive, controlling governments they aren’t really truly representative of Marx’s ideals which are much more in line with More. Because according to Marx (at least so far as I understand him) government dissolves as once everyone lives in propertyless harmony, there is no need for a government anymore and the society then resembles that of Utopia much more closely in the peaceful, happy, communal vision sense. This is obviously not a very practical plan as it has never been implemented successfully, mainly because it goes contrary to basic human nature, which More himself agrees with. More says that although this is ideal it will never really happen (hence the Utopia “no place” thing) because pride will never let it happen, and “pride is far to deeply rooted in men’s hearts” to ever sacrifice their wealth, social status and the fact that they are above other people. I don’t think More would be particularly unhappy with or surprised by our ideas about pleasure. Things are basically the same as they always have been; money buys things, things bring pleasure. I think he would be pleased to see the greater toleration, fairer criminal justice system etc… that are the marks of progress from his age to ours. As was pretty much covered to death by every person before me is that the central purpose of the Utopians’ lives is achieving harmony, happiness etc… Their method of achieving this certainly does resemble typical Marxist ideals. I’ll have to disagree with Noah a bit here. While actual applications of Communism have resulted in oppressive, controlling governments they aren’t really truly representative of Marx’s ideals which are much more in line with More. Because according to Marx (at least so far as I understand him) government dissolves as once everyone lives in propertyless harmony, there is no need for a government anymore and the society then resembles that of Utopia much more closely in the peaceful, happy, communal vision sense. This is obviously not a very practical plan as it has never been implemented successfully, mainly because it goes contrary to basic human nature, which More himself agrees with. More says that although this is ideal it will never really happen (hence the Utopia “no place” thing) because pride will never let it happen, and “pride is far to deeply rooted in men’s hearts” to ever sacrifice their wealth, social status and the fact that they are above other people.
I don’t think More would be particularly unhappy with or surprised by our ideas about pleasure. Things are basically the same as they always have been; money buys things, things bring pleasure. I think he would be pleased to see the greater toleration, fairer criminal justice system etc… that are the marks of progress from his age to ours.

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #3 by Dan http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/08/utopia-discussion-question-3/#comment-406 Dan Fri, 16 May 2008 01:43:35 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/08/utopia-discussion-question-3/#comment-406 With the abolishment of a common form of currency, the Utopians believe that pride, greed, and other money-related turmoils would be rid of as well. They do have a point, as a lack of material wealth would seem to lessen any one person's jealousy towards another. Without jealousy, or a need to steal from the rich (which there are none, anyways), thieves, as well, would cease to exist. However, by examining the situation furthermore, it is clear to see that a lack of wealth, thus "reward," Utopians could not possibly consistently contribute all of their worth as they work for a central commonality. In order for the working class of any nation to be productive, there has to be something to look forward to, something to work for. While Utopians believe in themselves that they can equally contribute to the society altogether, it is unrealistic to completely refrain from addressing man's natural flaws. These "flaws" will be highlighted in this Utopian society as it shall increasingly become apparent that all men have their own minds, and in order for this society to run successfully, every single individual must be ready and willing to put all of their intuitions aside and work mindlessly in this society. Its too bad that in only this mindless society can education be not only given, but mandatory, to all members. Also, as Zach pointed out, this Utopian society breaks down the larger it becomes. However, nobody seemed to have noted that in the "Social and Business Relations" segment, it is stated that "they allow no city to have over six thousand households" (37). If the population exceeds this amount, the society would then have to plant a colony on the adjoining mainland, supposedly solving the problem as they fail to recognize the inhabitants of the land they so easily plan to expand into. More would be appalled by the state of affairs in this contemporary lifestyle. Pleasure in today's world has been taken over by the consumer market, based completely on capitalism. Although it is great to see nearly every person working to their full potential in order to reach their goals, i would not think More could even comprehend the isolation of each man's work, as he does it solely to provide for him and his family. Also, with excess money, contemporary people use it to pleasure themselves by indulging in luxuries to benefit themselves. In most cases, nothing is given up willingly to the good of the public as we have become an independent society. With the abolishment of a common form of currency, the Utopians believe that pride, greed, and other money-related turmoils would be rid of as well. They do have a point, as a lack of material wealth would seem to lessen any one person’s jealousy towards another. Without jealousy, or a need to steal from the rich (which there are none, anyways), thieves, as well, would cease to exist. However, by examining the situation furthermore, it is clear to see that a lack of wealth, thus “reward,” Utopians could not possibly consistently contribute all of their worth as they work for a central commonality. In order for the working class of any nation to be productive, there has to be something to look forward to, something to work for. While Utopians believe in themselves that they can equally contribute to the society altogether, it is unrealistic to completely refrain from addressing man’s natural flaws. These “flaws” will be highlighted in this Utopian society as it shall increasingly become apparent that all men have their own minds, and in order for this society to run successfully, every single individual must be ready and willing to put all of their intuitions aside and work mindlessly in this society. Its too bad that in only this mindless society can education be not only given, but mandatory, to all members. Also, as Zach pointed out, this Utopian society breaks down the larger it becomes. However, nobody seemed to have noted that in the “Social and Business Relations” segment, it is stated that “they allow no city to have over six thousand households” (37). If the population exceeds this amount, the society would then have to plant a colony on the adjoining mainland, supposedly solving the problem as they fail to recognize the inhabitants of the land they so easily plan to expand into. More would be appalled by the state of affairs in this contemporary lifestyle. Pleasure in today’s world has been taken over by the consumer market, based completely on capitalism. Although it is great to see nearly every person working to their full potential in order to reach their goals, i would not think More could even comprehend the isolation of each man’s work, as he does it solely to provide for him and his family. Also, with excess money, contemporary people use it to pleasure themselves by indulging in luxuries to benefit themselves. In most cases, nothing is given up willingly to the good of the public as we have become an independent society.

]]> Comment on Utopia Discussion Question #3 by Mary H http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/08/utopia-discussion-question-3/#comment-405 Mary H Fri, 16 May 2008 01:08:08 +0000 http://rwilson.edublogs.org/2008/05/08/utopia-discussion-question-3/#comment-405 The Utopians believe that the purpose of life is to collectively work to make everyone's lives better. This is achieved by abolishing the use of money. This, supposedly, eliminates greed and many forms of crime in society. This is a reasonable plan of life. Working selflessly for others is something that people in our society are taught over and over again to admire. It's something to strive for, but not necessarily something to be achieved. Whether or not this plan is realistic is a different story. Not everyone is of the disposition to live for others. They need something else to motivate them. This means that while a good portion of the society may be willing to work together, there will always be a number of renegades who work only for themselves. This pocket of rebels is what makes Utopian ideals impractical. More would say that out contemporary ideas of pleasure are too worldly. He would say that rather than gaining pleasure from material things, we should get pleasure from making others' lives better. The Utopians believe that the purpose of life is to collectively work to make everyone’s lives better. This is achieved by abolishing the use of money. This, supposedly, eliminates greed and many forms of crime in society. This is a reasonable plan of life. Working selflessly for others is something that people in our society are taught over and over again to admire. It’s something to strive for, but not necessarily something to be achieved. Whether or not this plan is realistic is a different story. Not everyone is of the disposition to live for others. They need something else to motivate them. This means that while a good portion of the society may be willing to work together, there will always be a number of renegades who work only for themselves. This pocket of rebels is what makes Utopian ideals impractical. More would say that out contemporary ideas of pleasure are too worldly. He would say that rather than gaining pleasure from material things, we should get pleasure from making others’ lives better.

]]>